Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Is there something in your life that you're wanting to happen and you're wondering, when is it going to happen? How long is this going to take? What is going on? Why isn't this happened yet? Right? And you're like trying to do stuff to make it happen, it's still not happening. And you're like, when is the timing? What's going on here? How come this isn't lining up? Well, in today's session, we're talking about divine timing. There's a perfect timing for everything. And how do we align with that? How do we understand that? How do we live in such a way that we accept the divine timing and open ourselves to what that is and manage this in between stage of no man's land where we're sort of not sure what's going to happen, when it's going to happen, when it's all up in the air and the balls haven't dropped and everything is all over the place. How do we handle that situation?
Welcome to the podcast.
Lots of love and let's jump into it.
Hello, Shireen.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Hello, Michael.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Yeah, so this was your idea again for the topic. Why did you pick this topic?
Divine timing?
[00:01:01] Speaker B: You need to give me a break every once in a while.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Well, you know how it is. We have to. Why? What was the divine timing that brought about divine timing?
[00:01:10] Speaker B: I did a course on insight timer on trust, and recently also I did a meditation on insight timer, on trusting, the unfolding and the comments I got on it, right? Like, you know, like every week I, let's say I post one, one meditation. But this one gets a lot like those, the trust course or this meditation, they. It gets a lot of feedback, right? Like people are really listening to it and commenting on it and things like that.
And I realized that that's really. People are struggling with that.
You know, they are trying to grasp, they're trying to grasp what it is that they can hold on to so they can trust or they can, you know, surrender to what's happening?
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I have the same. There's a track I did years ago called Trust, the divine timing of your life. And it's got way more comments and feedback than loads of other things.
So this is, this is a huge topic and we've all experienced it where we want something to happen. And we're like, when? When's it? When is it finally going to happen? And I think the reason this is such a charged topic is because that, that middle area where it hasn't happened yet and we want it to Happen is really an uncomfortable feeling. Most of the time. It's because it's like, when is it going to happen? When's it going to happen? When's it going to happen? Even, like, waiting for stuff to arrive in the post, for example, it's like a minor thing. It's not like some major thing, but it's like I find myself going, I ordered this thing, like, where is it? Right? And like, so this, this kind of up in the air, it's coming in the post type of feeling for even much, much bigger, serious things is an uncomfortable place to be. That, that sense of, when, when is it going to happen? What am I going to do in the meantime? What's going to happen if it doesn't happen?
It can bring up a lot of.
A lot of waste thoughts or anxiety or what if this and what if that.
So in your course and the things you've shared, what is it that you've shared that has been most powerful and helpful for people that they've shared about many things?
[00:03:32] Speaker B: But one thing is the one that really helped me, which I share in the course, is finding our center, right? Like the physical location of the center.
For years and years and years and years and years and years, we were looking for a center.
And eventually what happened was the center we were living in, we were renting, and the lease didn't run out. Nothing, we were just renting.
But someone neighbor complained to the owner saying, oh, they're running a dangerous culture.
And so the owner, who we have been good tenants for 10 years, right?
And the owner said, okay, you have two weeks notice to leave.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: I was like, what?
And this was just before Thanksgiving?
Just. Yeah, around Thanksgiving time. And I was like, christmas is coming. Are you serious? Where are we going?
And it was just before Thanksgiving, and I was in El Salvador visiting the center there, and I came back and frantically we started searching and the amount of centers we looked at right before, like before even she kicked us out before, so many centers, right? Nothing would line up. We couldn't afford it, or it was too much, you know, too many renovations that need to happen. This, that, that, like so many things were going on.
And then when we found this one, it was just the right space, right? It was just the right space and everything just lined up. And so after we got the center and we found it within a. Within a month, I think.
And then after we, you know, closed on it and all that, I was sitting in the center and I was thinking, I want to hold this feeling, hold this feeling that Whatever didn't happen in the past was a blessing and that everything eventually will work out.
The timing is always right, right?
Cosmic timing is always right. My thinking about it might not be, but the cosmic timing is always right. It's wise, it's accurate, everything will be fin.
And so that feeling, right, I try to protect that feeling whenever I can go off in a little random thing and say, no, it's perfect, everything will be fine.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: That's beautiful.
I had a similar experience actually, years ago when I was in England. And I remember one time I was taking a nap in the back garden, right? And I woke up from my nap and I was half asleep. It was like 2 o' clock in the afternoon, and I walked to the front door half asleep, and I noticed there was mail there. So I picked it up and basically there was a letter saying you have to leave the house in like, I think it was like six weeks or four weeks or something.
And I was half asleep and I was like reading this. I'm like, what? Because, because it's a big deal finding a new house and moving out. And there was four of us living there.
And we looked all over the place. We couldn't find anything that was decent. And, you know, like, everything, we was like, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked. And then one of the people I was living with, there's a bunch of us living together, meditating.
He was just. He decided just to have meditation and just stay in a high space. And he wasn't trying to do anything looking for a house or anything. And he just randomly was called to walk into some place, I don't remember where. It was nothing to do with houses, right? And as he walked in there, for no particular reason, there was this board.
And on the board was this one thing that said, there's this house that for rent, right?
And he picked it off this little card and we went to see it and we're like, oh my God, this is just incredible place. And it's really, it's. It's the perfect, perfect, perfect, loco. Way better than anything we even imagined. Way better than our other house.
And it was perfect timing. And we just moved straight into there. And it was just. It was just like a miracle.
But it came from that detached sense of peace and ease and all of our hard work and pushing and fighting and all the rest of it led to no results at all. It was a complete waste of time.
And so I think that's. That's something I've experienced again and again in many, many different ways, is that Whenever I'm like, I need to force my way through this situation, it pushes it away. I feel terrible in the moment. And it actually cause it often causes problems and it certainly doesn't solve any problems. And then you let go and you realize actually if anything had happened earlier, it would have been a problem. And I probably have to be dealing with the consequences of that going wrong. Whereas when it did line up, it was just pristine timing. It really was. And one of the things that, that I recommend everyone does to prove this to yourself, because we can say all these stuff and you can be like, yeah, but it doesn't apply to me. So what I want you to do is to actually take time, maybe after this podcast and just get a piece of paper and say, how many things have happened in your life that you want it to happen one way or you want it to happen quickly?
They didn't happen the way you wanted them to, but then something else happened a bit later and it turned out that what happened later was better and magical in some way compared to what you expected.
Because when you can prove this to yourself from your own experience already, then you can find yourself feeling a bit more relaxed about it. Right. I think it's really important to look at into our own history and our own past and say, how many times has this already happened?
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Absolutely.
You know, Einstein said something which I think we all need to consider is we have to come to a conclusion. Are we living in a friendly, benevolent universe, you know, or are we living in an unfriendly, out to get you universe? Right? You have to decide. It's either or choice. Right? You have to decide one of those things.
And my suggestion is to always decide you're living in a friendly, you know, benign, benevolent universe because you are so powerful. You will attract that.
Right? Because there's a high probability of self fulfilling prophecy on the other side. So if ever it is, then you want it leaning here.
And then from that space, then you see how many benevolent, beneficial things actually happen, right?
Like let's say something happened today, you didn't like it, you wanted it a certain way. Just come into the practice. Come into the practice of seeing, reserving judgment, being a detached observer, going back and seeing the blessings.
Come into that practice because we have a habit of thinking, oh, woe is me, this happened, that happened. But come into the practice of seeing how many blessings that actually are happening in your life which you weren't anticipating, right? Things went wrong, and then it turned out to be a blessing.
We just have to come into that habit.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: It'S, it's really helpful to develop the practice of immediately saying there must be benefit in this situation. There has to be some hidden secret to this straight away. You might not know what it is.
So that, that's where you go, it goes like, if I say this bad thing, so called bad thing happened and I say there must be benefit, right? But I can't see it, then I'll start to feel, well, there's there really any benefit, right? But if I say there must be benefit, I don't know what it is yet, but I'm totally open to discover what it is as soon as I possibly can. Like, what is the benefit? What is the benefit? I don't know, but I'm going to find out really quickly or I'll find out. Whenever I, whenever I'm gonna find out, it sort of opens the door to allow that to become apparent to us.
Right? Because otherwise something happens or doesn't happen and we say, oh, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible. And then we feel bad and then we're not seeing the possible magical things coming out of it.
So if you can catch yourself right at that moment and say, I've got a choice here. One option is terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. And panic attacks and stress and worry and anxiety and. And the other option is there has to be benefit. There has to be benefit. I don't know what it is, but I'm totally open to it. Where is it? Where is it? Where is it?
Right? Your mind will start figuring out some benefit fairly quickly and then the bigger benefit might become apparent whenever it's meant to.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the nature of blessings, right. You will not see the immediately what the blessings are.
That's always the case, Right. Like, I remember so many things in my life when I was going through it. I was like, what is the benefit in this?
Only later did I realize, oh my God, there was so many blessings in that situation. I remember when I was going through cancer, I was like, what is the benefit in this? You know, whenever I heard that. Oh, like what? Like, no, no, no, it's just words. Then I said, no, relax, there is something. I don't need to know it now. Only later I found out what the blessing was. Because the blessings are not immediately apparent. That is the nature of blessings. You have to trust.
There has to be a certain level of trust. And that trust will reveal the blessing.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Many, many situations we go through, there is, there is a certain Discomfort that has to be faced and passed through before the magic happens on the other side. And of course, none of us like that, that phase. I mean, many, many. I mean, I, I'm trying to think of specific situations, but just countless opportunities and situations that come up where, where I'll just give you something. This comes to mind is I remember when I ordered a infrared sauna, right?
I thought, this is going to be great. Infrared sauna. Hooray, hooray, hooray. So then this thing gets, gets delivered right down the middle of nowhere type of place, right?
And it's this huge thing that's extremely heavy, right? And I'm like, this is a complete disaster because how are we going to get this up the stairs and put it up? And it's just like.
And it was like it was 105 degrees or something. And I'm like, this is what stupid idea this was, buying the sauna.
And, but, but like once it was put up, it's been a blessing for years and years and years, that thing, right? But I remember thinking, I know this sounds like a first world problem, like, what are you talking about, Michael? A sauna, putting us on. But I remember, like, why this sort of situation comes up again and again. There's this, this is a total disaster type of feeling, like. And I have this again and again and again with all kinds of work that I do. This is so tedious. I don't like it. Why do I have to do all this annoying stuff I don't like?
Or if I get sick, oh my God, I feel so terrible.
But once that is passed, there's normally this like huge relief and sense of gratitude and sense of like, ah, yes. And every time we overcome these big or small things, I think it builds a certain amount of trust that this too will pass. And it's going to move through again and again and again, you know, And Shereen's laughing, she's like, this is gonna pass. He's putting a sauna together. Oh my God, this is so terrible.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: I'm laughing because my example was cancer and your example was a song.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: I know, it's a sauna. It was terrible. It was terrible. I'm just, it's. I've had much more serious things, but it goes. But most the time, right? People aren't dealing with cancer.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: But it is.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: You've had. No, no. You know what the issue here is, Michael?
Many times you don't share personal things because I've seen you go through some really personal things.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: No, I've gone through difficult situations.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Very difficult moments. Very difficult moments. And I want to tell for the benefit of the, for our listeners, he's.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Had more problems than a sauna being put up.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah, there were definitely more problems than a sauna. He's gone through difficult things and he really came out of it and now he feels those things are a blessing.
He just doesn't want to talk about that.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: No, I think what it is, I, I don't feel comfortable talking about things that involves other people because I feel it's disrespectful for them to talk about things that involve other people. So any problems I've had in relation to other people in my life, they are private and confidential. But I can tell you in essence that I certainly have had plenty of trouble and it's come out the other end for everyone's benefit, actually better off. So.
But yeah, if I had, I think any personal challenges that I've had in myself, which there have been many in terms of like addictions and I mean I, we haven't, we haven't planned this out. I haven't got a long list of problems at this point.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: No, I can tell you your long list of problems that you overcame. But we won't do that because it's not my story to tell.
I'm not going to tell.
But you have come out of things the other end very well and. Yeah, and, and you feel that they are a blessing now. Whatever happened was a blessing.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Many, many situations.
It goes on and on and on. But the point I'm making is that most the time this trust related, you know, divine timing, like cancer or like moving house or getting a job or like nearly going bankrupt and these sort of extreme things are much better stories really. But in, in life we are normally dealing with tedious, unpleasant things that are going on over and like, like there's acute problems and chronic problems and I think there's a chronic problem with timing that we deal with pretty much every day.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Right. And we just need to get into the habit of different thinking the everyday chronic timing issues that are going on. Change your mindset around it.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And this, this applies on bigger meta scales and micro scales in it. And it's the same thing really, isn't it?
It's the same thing.
Yeah.
I mean most of the time whenever there's like an illness or some difficult situation, the relief afterwards actually is almost like feeling 10 times better than what happened before. But of course the middle period isn't pleasant and we have to just Be straight up about it. It just isn't.
So we're not there. Unfortunately, as far as I know, we haven't figured out a way of saying all our terrible pain and suffering that we've had in various ways is totally fine at the moment. Because most time it isn't. We're just like, oh, my God, this is terrible. But I'm just.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: I'm challenging. I'm challenging both of us, brother. I'm challenging both of us. Can we come to a point and say it's good right now? It's all good?
I feel I'm coming to that point, right. Like, recently I've had many health problems and I just feel I'm fine. Right?
The body is doing what it's doing, but I'm fine. Mentally, I'm fine. It's like it's happening in another country somewhere else.
Not to me.
And so.
And so we can come to that in this moment, right? In this moment. Oh, my God, there is such a blessing.
Everything is a blessing. Everything is good. Everything is a blessing.
This is the best that could have ever happened.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: It's the best day ever, right?
[00:21:16] Speaker B: This situation is the best that could have ever happened.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: It's when we stop resisting it. I mean, I remember one time, I might mention this story before where I was.
I don't know what happened.
I was in India for nearly five and a half, six months. And they. I think three days before I was supposed to leave, I was totally knocked out, bedridden, I don't know, because India, you can get these weird viruses and, like, back to. I don't know, you know how it is with all these strange bugs and stuff. And I was fine, fine, fine, fine, fine.
And then I was completely knocked out. And I couldn't actually get up out of the bed and I couldn't drink any water. And I had the most terrible pain in my body and in my head as well, especially, and spinning and, like, nauseous, and the whole thing was, like, going around. I was just. And I was, you know, I was like, if I don't get up and drink water or something, I pray. Like, it was. I was worrying and I couldn't call anyone either. So it was just terrible. And it was going on for, like, nearly two days.
And at a certain point, I had to surrender and find a place within myself where even though there was all this pain, I was actually fine over here. It was fascinating experience. I was like. I was like, over here looking at this person with all this suffering and pain going on down there. And I was like, I'm totally fine over here.
And that, that was life changing experience actually to find that place in that, in that chaotic situation.
And once I stayed there long enough, somehow it gave the strength somehow to get up and get some water and call somebody. And then I ended up leaving and managed to get back to England in one piece.
But. But it wasn't until that that experience had been like grounded into me that I was able to do that.
So I have had actual problems, it turns out.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: I know you've had actual problems, you just don't talk about.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: But I want you to know if you've anyone's tried to put up one of these massive saunas, it is a pain in the ass. It really is. And in 105 degrees, right.
But Shereen's cancer is certainly far more serious than another.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: No, no, no. How can we say one problem is more pro for you putting up a sauna? No, no, put for you. Putting up the sauna was the bigger problem, right?
[00:23:49] Speaker A: It was at the time. It was the worst problem I had in that moment, let's put it that way.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Right, right. And it's absolutely valid. I'm not even being facetious here.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: No, I know, I know. It's. Life is full of tedious things and it's up to us to find the benefit and also tolerate them with a sense of humor as best we can.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: You know, the, the thing that we. There is a grand intelligence, right?
How can we instill upon ourselves there is breathe.
There is a grand intelligence. And that intelligence is very wise.
And it has its own course.
It's not going to, you know, go according to my timing, it's going to go according to its own timing.
It has its own course.
And let it breathe. Breathe into it. Breathe into it and really accept that there is a grand intelligence that is really wise and that you will be fine with it. Whatever the outcome. You'll be fine with it.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: That's right.
So we have.
So it's like imagine there's a big book, a big script, right? With all the people in the whole world, it's a huge book and there's a script.
It's like a play, right? And so, and so supposed to shop at this time and this supposed to get sick at this time. And this thing's supposed to happen, this person's supposed to die at this time.
It's all in the script and it's a big book, right? And it's a divine script and it's exactly how it's meant to Be right. So that's the script and that is definitely what's going to happen, like it or not. And then we have our own version of what we think the script should be like over here, which we've written down and we're thinking about, right? And they're not the same thing, right? There's the script. Ask what's going to happen.
And then as our version, which is not going to happen.
And so if we're forced trying to force our script onto the bigger script, we're guaranteed stress, you know, and a lot of people will say no, no, no, that's not true. You can't say it's all. But when it comes down to is whatever's going to happen is going to happen whether we like it or not. And we've all experienced many, many times in our life where we want something to happen and it doesn't happen, right? So if, if our version of the script is always going to happen, how come it's not working out most the time?
Do you know what I mean?
Because we, it should always be the case. If, if everything you've ever wanted happened exactly the way you wanted it to, then you'll probably just align with this actual real script if that's the case. But if it hasn't worked out, then it's because our expectations and our desires are different from reality. And the, one of the best ways to experience peace is to realize there is this script and we just have to understand what it is.
Then get on board and not fight.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Not fight with what is right.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Allow what is to be what is. That's it. Allow it. No fighting.
Yeah, you're fighting. It also is like a waste of energy because nothing's going to change.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
It's like if something is coming in the post, right, and it's been delayed, you, there's. What's the point in stressing out about it and getting all upset and sending loads of messages all over the place like it's just, it's going to come tomorrow or the next day, like. But that applies to life in general and are fighting with it. It's not making anyone any happier.
So one, one thing actually a nice quote that I thought is very, very profound actually and they can be taken the wrong way. But you have to take this the right way from brother Bridge Mohan. Right. I, this is just like when I heard this I thought this is just genius.
He says what is good is good and what is bad is good.
So that's it.
What's good is Good. And what's bad is good. Right? And if you can have that attitude, then as far as you're concerned, everything's good, right?
[00:28:18] Speaker B: Everything's good.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: You know, that's actually a very, very deep thing to.
He's like a very sort of high level, high, high level yogi, spiritual person, spiritual teacher for years and years and years, and he's come to that essenceful quote.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah, we should learn from them, right? Like, why are there those people here in our lives? Because we can learn from them, right? You know, like so many things we take advantage of, right? We are not going and trying to invent a computer or invent this thing, Right? We already buy it, you know, buy it made for us, the computer, there's the camera. Everything.
We buy it made, Right. We're not trying to invent it from scratch. But in the same way, these are spiritual technologies that really are useful.
Why would we need to go invent it ourselves? These really work.
They work and they work really well. Just use them.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that. Doesn't that sum it up? It's worth writing it down. What's good is good, what's bad is good. It's all in the script, right? And you're just like, all right, and. And take it on board as a philosophy, as a perspective, as a attitude, and see how you feel. See if your life gets better and you end up happier and more graceful and have a better life and more service to others. If it works for you, great. And if for some reason doesn't work for you, then at least you tried it, right? But we have to start with something as being an opportunity to try it out.
I. I immediately feel better if I think what's good is good and what's bad is good. I'm like, all right, well, then what's there to worry about? You know?
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. There's absolutely nothing to worry about.
You know, eventually we are safe. We are souls. We are eternal beings.
We have God with us. There's nothing to worry about.
There's absolutely nothing to worry about.
It's unnecessary habit. You know, actually, this, not trusting. These are just bad habits, right? And we don't know they are bad habits. And it's. Maya is such that it's taking over your life and you think, oh, I need it, but you don't need it. It's a bad habit. You don't need.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And also for anyone, I can imagine people thinking, yeah, well, what about all the bad stuff happening in the world? How is that good? Right?
The. The thing is we're more capable of doing good actions to be of service to people and help make things better if we're not super triggered and about to have a panic attack.
That's just the truth of it. Know, someone who is in a totally disturbed emotional state is less likely to be able to compassionately take action than someone who's relaxed and like clear thinking.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: You know, Dada Janki one time said, even when there's nothing visible to be done in a face of a problem. So let's take the Middle east conflict, right? The Palestine, Israel conflict sitting here, I can't really do anything about it.
Even if I go to do something that's really not, it's totally out of my sphere of influence.
But the world still needs the support of a tranquil mind.
They need that support, right?
Because those are, I'm not saying they are good or bad, right? I'm not saying this happened, that happened and this should have happened. I'm not saying that. Right?
All I'm saying is it's beyond my control and I can sit here and have deep meditation and not add to the volume of violence in the world by thinking certain things because all I'm doing at that point is adding to the volume and just be very quiet, very still. Support the world with your mind, with a tranquil mind.
And that can only happen if you trust everything is fine. Everything is fine, right? Because most of us think this what about, right, this, what about if I tell you, oh, trust timing, trust timing, then you'll say, but what about all those people in the Middle east who are dying?
What about the children who don't have food or whatever, right?
That's a really small percentage of population. I'm not diminishing what they are going through.
But what I'm saying is take responsibility here now, with you, with what's happening.
Because what about thousand miles away is really, it's beyond my control, but trusting, having a tranquil mind, connecting with God, that is beyond my control. And that is something I need right now.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Exactly. That's why the Serenity Prayer is something that I think is worth doing at least twice a day.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, which is nearly everything, have the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. And when it comes to divine timing, if you just do the Serenity Prayer a few times a day, I think you'll it can help smooth the whole thing over.
Yay. So hopefully everyone feels better. You can share in your comments if you like what you are going to do about your situation of being up in the air. And we're wishing you every success in everything. Working out with ease and grace at the perfect, perfect time.
Thank you for being here. And let's have a blessing.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: So we'll pick a blessing randomly.
And this blessing is from God for you to trust. Divine timing. Okay. God for you to trust. Divine timing.
Adaptability.
Your ability to adjust brings you joy.
Adaptability is your badge of honor.
You embrace new experiences with enthusiasm.
You bravely navigate life's unpredictable turns.
Possibilities are limitless.
This freedom is now who you are.
Om Shanti.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Om Shanti. So you've already safe and free.
Have a beautiful day, beautiful week, and wishing every success in everything that you're going through.
Much love.
