Who is God, Really?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome, welcome, welcome. Today we're diving into Experiencing God. Experiencing God. So if you'd like to experience God and connect with God, then you're in the right place. And this is the best episode for you because we don't normally talk about this directly, even though this is the background behind everything that really we're talking about. And so Shireen has written this great book here called Experiencing God, and I highly recommend it. She's not gonna be. She's too humble to recommend her own work, but I'm gonna recommend it to you. And it's 40 meditations to connect with God in daily life. And so that's what we're getting into today. Different ways to connect with God so you can actually experience the power and the blessings and the transformative energy that comes from the highest of all beings. So welcome, welcome, welcome. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Hello, Michael. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Hello, Shireen. So what was your inspiration for this particular episode? [00:01:10] Speaker B: Shivratri. Actually, in a day, we are going to have Shivratri, and I really wanted to do something to honor Shiver. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because people in the west, they think Shiver is. [00:01:26] Speaker B: You mean no one knows about. I would get it. [00:01:28] Speaker A: No, they don't know because they think Shiver is some, like, person with a snake around his neck. And if you type in Shiver on the Internet, you'll see all these pictures. So why would. So what is this? Because a lot of people, they. They're not quite sure what you're talking about. [00:01:49] Speaker B: So Shiva actually means benefactor. The word Shiva means benefactor. It could also mean seed. Right. But when someone says sada, Shiva means someone who's constantly benevolent. And so when we. Ratri means night. And so when we say in the Brahma Kumaris, Shiva, we are really referring to God as a being of light. And that being of light is for us name is Shiva. And so when we are talking about Shivratri, we are really talking about the descent of the incorporeal supreme being of light into this world, into the darkness that is going on in the world. It's not a physical darkness, but a spiritual darkness that is going on in the world to bring benefit to the world. [00:02:49] Speaker A: So that's. That's fascinating. So that's not some deity in some other realm with a snake around its neck, then that's not. [00:02:57] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. So we distinguish. Actually in the Brahmakumaris, we distinguish between Shiva and Shankar. So that deity with. Very fascinating. I used to be always very fascinated with him growing up the deity with the snake around for us, that is Shankar. And Shiva is the incorporeal supreme soul who's always incorporeal, like it's always a being of light. [00:03:32] Speaker A: So Shiva is a name for God then? Just for simple. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Yes, Shiva is a name for God. Shiva is a name for God. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Right. So Shivar actually is celebrating God's coming and bringing light into the darkness. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. Into the world. And so for us he did come into the world and he did bring light and darkness into our lives. Right. Into your life, My life. Right. And so we celebrate Shivratri in honor of that. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Wonderful. So we have this book here. This is a very, very deep thing what we're talking about today. And you only can really experience things by experiencing them, you know, because I can say from my own experience that I had, I went to my first meditation class and I was pulled out my body and shown visions. And this is not quite what I expected. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Oh, and you thought it would happen all the time. [00:04:32] Speaker A: I thought that's what happened to everybody, you know, but that was God's grace. [00:04:36] Speaker B: I thought this would happen all the time. When I had my vision, I was like, oh my God. I go there and I get visions all the time. [00:04:42] Speaker A: That's what I get. Visions. [00:04:43] Speaker B: I was first in the up. Didn't happen. [00:04:46] Speaker A: You get, get them, get them, get you hooked with visions did not happen after that, but it's yeah, God's. So when we get God's light, God's grace, then it really profoundly changes the entire perspective of our life and then we get to see everything seems differently after that. So how do you want to share more about this? So we have your book here, which is a great book. 40 meditations. The first one is called the point of Light. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Why don't you read a point of light? [00:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So to understand, connect with God. God? Who is God? What is God? The point of light. This is directly from the book. God is not a vast form or a majestic figure carved in stone. Here's a point of living light, the sacred reality. Across history, humanity has tried to capture God in images, temples and rituals. We have built towering memorials to hold this divine presence. Yet the truth is simpler and more wondrous. God is a radiant point of light beyond shadow. Just as the seed of a tree holds within it the future of branches, leaves and fruit, so this infinitesimal point contains all wisdom, all love, all power. He is subtle, beyond sight. Yet nothing greater exists in a world obsessed with grandeur. Divine greatness hides in simplicity. The infinite appears as a point. The highest on high remains unseen by bodily eyes, yet dazzles the eye of the soul. Nearer than thought and wider than every horizon. He is neither diffused into matter nor contained by it. To see God as a point of light is to see ourselves reflected. For we too are points of living light. The child resembles the parents. When we remember God in this form, we remember who we truly are. Yeah. Do you want me to read the rest of it or should we just. [00:07:38] Speaker B: No, I want us to stop here, if you don't mind. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Or you want to read the rest? [00:07:43] Speaker A: No, no. Why don't you share a little bit about this? [00:07:48] Speaker B: Several things, right? First, I don't remember writing that. [00:07:54] Speaker A: Channeling special things. [00:07:55] Speaker B: It's coming these days, right? These days it's like just totally happening differently. Okay, one thing. Okay, let's go from bottom up. The last thing you spoke about, the mirror, right? So when we say God is a point of light, what we are saying is we too are actually beings of light and matter, right? Like we have to distinguish between. The other day someone was asking me. Yesterday someone was asking me this question. I thought I was spiritual. Do I have to consider myself to be a soul to be spiritual? I don't know what people think spirituality is. I think that would be the basic minimum to think of yourself as spiritual. And so. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's funny, isn't it, what people think spiritual is. I'm already spiritual, but I don't have any awareness. I'm a spiritual being, but somehow spiritual. [00:08:55] Speaker B: But right, so this thing, right, that we are like. Let's first distinguish between physical and matter. Physical is anything that you can see with your eyes are physical things. But we know that things that we cannot see with our eyes actually exist, right? And they can also be quasi physical, like WI fi or something, right? You can't see with your eyes, but you know it exists. And so then we, like, you know, radioactive radio waves or AM waves or FM waves, all of them exist, right? But we can't see with our eyes. But they do exist. In the same way. We have something called spiritual things that you cannot see with your eyes, but exist. They are eternal things. Eternal things means that they always exist, like the soul. And so the last couple of sentences are very powerful. Can you read those again? [00:10:02] Speaker A: To see God help. As a point of light is to see ourselves reflected. For we too are points of living light. The child resembles the parents. When we remember God in this form, we remember who we truly are. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Exactly. So. So both the parent and the child, the soul and the supreme soul. I'm the child. Supreme soul is the parent. You are the child, Su. Supreme soul is the parent for all of us souls. So all of us souls are reflected, right? We are the same thing. We are both beings of light. But there's a difference between us human souls and the supreme soul. Human soul is a point of light. But the human soul comes into the cycle of birth and death, and the supreme soul never does. But because we have come into the cycle of birth and death again and again, we have forgotten who we are. And we go around thinking we are these bodies, right? It's like someone playing Superman goes around thinking they are the costume, right? They're not the costume. They're the person behind who's playing the Superman. Or if you've driven a car forever and ever, you think you're the car and not the driver. And so, yes, we have these physical forms, but we actually are souls behind these. And so when to remember God as light is also means to remember myself as light. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And then the thing. The reason this is so important is because whatever we focus our attention on has an effect on us. Because there's energy in everything, right? So if I think about, for example, the sun. The sun is a nice thing to think about, relatively speaking, because it's very bright and nice and warm and it keeps the whole world alive, really. But it's physical, right? And if I think about like some TV show or some book I read or the news, that's why if someone spends their whole time watching the news, they end up quite angry and depressed, right? Because you're having a remembrance of negative things. You know, if you think about the past and all the things that went horribly wrong, then that can be upsetting as well. So out of anything we can think about, God is the most beneficial thing to remember. Which is why when we remember God, we receive power, but we also experience ourselves. Because that's. It's like a mirror, isn't it? And if you think of God as a point of light, you're getting a better sense of who you are rather than thinking of God as some vague cloud or something. Because it's a bit difficult to even remember God as some random thing, you know? So it makes a huge difference. Like what is your perception of who God is? [00:13:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. And the other thing which I feel is very important is we are obsessed with grandeur, right? Big things. Bigger is better. And, you know, we are obsessed with these things, but really, God really is a tiny, tiny being of light. But just because he's a tiny being of light, but he's also the most powerful soul. And so we need to understand that. Right, right. Like, because he's a tiny being of light, that doesn't mean he's not powerful. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's like. It's like technology, isn't it? The smaller the microchip is, the more powerful it is. There used to be these massive computers that took up a whole warehouse. And they didn't do anything hardly compared to what they do now. And everything's getting. And now they have quantum computers which are even more powerful. So you can see this is even happening. The smallest things have the most power contained in them. And this is the smallest of all things. I mean, really, it's so small that there's. It's invisible. Right. I mean, a point of light is as close as you can get to nothing at all, isn't it? Without there not being anything. Absolutely. You know. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Right. And the other thing which I felt in that passage you just read, which was very important to understand, is that we do rituals and we do look for temples. We do look for God on all these places. But the question is, what if the only thing you have to do to connect with God is become aware of yourself as a soul? You don't need to go to a temple. If you want, you could. But there's no. There's not that necessity for you to connect with God to go there. And so that is the question we need to ask ourselves. What if he's closer than my own breath? What if he's really accessible to me right here, right now? Right. We complicated too much. We complicated by becoming body conscious. We put God in really external things. And it doesn't have to be all of these external things. It really can be that God is accessible to me right here, right now. If I become aware of myself as a soul. [00:15:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Because we are beyond time and space and so is God. So, I mean, I think that the reason people do go to temples and sacred places because they have an atmosphere for silence, which is helpful, which is why, like, you have a meditation center and people come there for meditation. But. But you don't have to go to these places. The point is to. The reason people go to the center is because they find it easier not to be distracted because it has an atmosphere. But we can definitely connect anywhere because we're already spiritual beings. And it's interesting you're saying this because that's the magic secret right there, isn't it? Unless we consider ourselves to be Spiritual beings. It's like you have to tune the channel to be able to connect the right channel. [00:16:44] Speaker B: And you know, sometimes I feel that people say, oh, what if not, right? What if God is not? What if this, what if there is no God? Or recently someone was like, if there was a God, then why is he allowing all these problems in the world? Right? So let's first address one thing at a time, all the problems. [00:17:09] Speaker A: There's quite a few different things here. There's. How many books are written about this, you know, right? [00:17:14] Speaker B: No, no, not all the problems. The first thing is, what if God is not there, right? What if God doesn't exist? I feel, you know, a few hundred years ago, people really blindly believed in religion. Just blindly, right? Whatever anyone said go kill people, you go kill people, you do this, you do that, and people just believed it, right? That was a blind, blind obedience to religion. But you know what's happening nowadays? There's a blind doubt to everything. There's a blind faith in science now. Doesn't matter what science says, oh, it's true. Random nonsense, true without any proof. Like, you didn't see the proof, right? You did not see the proof to say that that's true. Just because science is saying it's true, you believed it, it's true. The same way I feel people are doing the same thing with God, they're having blind doubt, right? First there is a, you could say a dichotomy between. In signs, you haven't seen the proof, but you believe it. But now in religion, you want proof before you believe it, right? So you're blindly doubting it. So what if your blind doubt about things is really preventing you from experiencing God, right? What if we don't need to go from one extreme to the other extreme. We can't go from blind faith to blind doubt, right? There must be a happy medium in between where we say, where our heart thinks, okay, let me experiment with this. Let me experiment with being a soul. Let me experiment with connecting with God and see if it really works. What do you say? [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's one of those things where at the end of the day, you have to be open to something in order for you to get any benefit. You know, like if someone says eating certain foods, never going to help. Or like if you go to the doctor and they say, take these supplements and they say, no, no, I don't believe it. And they won't. So then he won't take them, right? Or even if you do take them and you think this is A bunch of nonsense, then that harms the benefit from. From getting. Because if you don't believe in something, you. You kind of block it. But also, I think it has to be said that you have to be open and willing and there's nothing better than personal experience. If I hadn't had personal experiences, I wouldn't believe any of this stuff either, to be perfectly honest, because it. Just believing in something intellectually doesn't mean very much. It's the, it's the authority of experience. And I think it must be our karma or whatever it is to have experiences. Right. But. But the, the open door comes from the willingness, doesn't it? [00:20:23] Speaker B: The willingness to experiment. [00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker B: To really see myself as a soul, actually, that's the first willingness. See yourself as a soul, then connect with the supreme Soul. Right. Both. Both happen. So now, Michael, if people tell you, but if really God exists, why are there all these. Why are. Why is there so many. So many problems in the world? Why is there so much suffering in the world? What do you say? [00:20:52] Speaker A: Because people have free will and they can do stupid stuff. That's why. It's quite simple, really. If someone. If. If I eat stupid, stupid amounts of hamburgers all day, random Cokes and everything else, and I get sick, why is that God's fault, do you know? I mean, it's. It's like just look at the world, right? Is God causing all these problems or are people doing stupid things? Just look at the news. The news is about people doing stupid stuff and hurting each other and coming up with ridiculous plans to do various things that harm other people. You know, if someone goes and shoots a bunch of people up somewhere, God didn't do that. That was the person who did it. Right. It's kind of like the idea that somehow God is doing all these things is, is even a strange idea just from a very sort of simple, logical perspective. And also nature. Nature has storms and nature has wind. That's nature, right? It's a planet. If you look at the stars, there's all sorts of explosions happening. And it's a. It's a crazy universe. That's. That's nature, right? So this, the spiritual being that we are, can become corrupted and we can have all sorts of crazy ideas in our head and do stupid stuff and then wreck the planet. And that's exactly what's going on. [00:22:19] Speaker B: And so when people say, but then why doesn't God prevent it? [00:22:24] Speaker A: Because God is not playing a game. You know, God gives advice and gives inspiration, but we're still the ones who decide what we do with our life, you know, it's just like, like anything in life. Like how many people have already received teachings in one way or the other in their life? And some people learn them and do them and other people ignore them. Right. That's free will. [00:22:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it is free will. So I totally agree with you. We need to talk about free will. Everyone, every single one has free will. Right. And I don't really believe that God can interfere in our free will. [00:23:09] Speaker A: No, it's like if you don't want to connect with God and you don't want to take care of your life or whatever it is, that's up to you. Like, we can completely ruin our life if we want, but there's no point blaming God for it, you know? [00:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Or collectively people are ruining the planet. No point in blaming God because collectively people have free will and they've decided greed is more important than whatever, then, sure, right. God's not going to force his way. But ultimately, right, so this is going on, right? The word that the supreme Soul, the point of light, Shiv Baba uses is the earn of sin. Like that almost like there's a metaphorical, like, container of sin. Right. And every time with free will, people keep doing stuff. So the urn, this container, this urn of sin keeps getting full, right. At certain point it's going to get so full that you, the world cannot go in that direction anymore. Right. And then you will actually see the difference that's going to happen. But right now I feel that what is open to us is don't worry about the urn of sin. Don't worry about who's putting in the urn of sin. We don't do it. We don't add to the urn. And two, we have free will to connect with God. [00:24:49] Speaker A: And, and the reason we need to connect with God is because it, it removes our bad karma. It starts to clear the urn out because we all. There's a collective urn of all the bad karma which is gonna come to the top and spew over and crack at some point. And you can sort of feel it's already happening. And then there is our personal urn, you know, whatever we've put in it from whatever we've done in the past, in past lives. And when we connect with God, it starts getting cleared out. That. That's very good motivation to have remembrance, actually. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:27] Speaker A: You know, it's like, I don't want. Let me clear some of that. It's like having a debt, right? It's like saying if you remember God and you clear out the karmic stuff that caused the problem in the first place, then there's no need to have the repercussions of it. It's. It's. That's actually. If you go to jail, I think the prisons and jails are technically called corrections facilities, as far as I understand. Right. The actual proper name for it. And so people go to jail to be corrected, supposedly, so they come out an upgraded version of themselves if. If we can be corrected quicker through our own processes and. And all the rest of. We don't need to be punished for it. You know, this is how karma works. Karma comes to. If I've done something wrong, right, And I keep doing it and it's causing me harm, there's going to be some karmic backlash from that that causes me pain to give me the message, this is a bad idea. Stop doing it. If I get that message quickly, then I don't need more and more and more pain to balance it out to stop me doing it. Because I've already learned the lesson, you know, and so remembering God is like getting the ultimate lesson because it's clearing out the unconscious reasons why certain bad things happened in the first place. And then once that's cleared, there's no need for pain to teach me because I've already learned the lesson. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:27:00] Speaker A: So these are very, very deep things. Yeah. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Should we read the rest of it? [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. This dying look getting a bit heavy here, isn't it? The owner of sin that's going to come and destroy everything in my heart. So this book is divided by the sacred reality. And in my heart, when I first learned that God is a point of light, not a figure of myth or imagination, it was as though a veil lifted. Suddenly, God was no longer far away or unreachable. He was nearer than breath. Simple, pure, personal. I carry the point like a quiet compass. My steps begin to align. This awareness stripped away the weight of superstition and brought me into a relationship of clarity. I needed only shift, a shift in vision to see through the eye of the soul. When I glimpsed that tiny flame shining in the silence of eternity, I know that I am home with him. In God's light, I discover my own brilliance. Yay. So it's very simple, very simple, very beautiful. [00:28:47] Speaker B: It's beautiful. What was what? What are your feelings? [00:28:52] Speaker A: You know, these, this. It's all very subtle, isn't it? Remembrance. It's very subtle. And there's two things going on here. One is, is first of all, when I am aware I'm a spiritual being, it's not just a idea. It's actually a profound paradigm shift. Because if I understand very deeply that I am eternal and there's no end to anything, this is a very mystical experience, right? These are words and these are wonderful book and it's all lovely, but like, when you come into the feeling of it, it's like a floating in a safe infinite space where everything is great and this whole world is. Is like this big game happening. So remembering God as a point of light isn't. Isn't like an intellectual exercise. It's like coming back home into the infinite light. And it's a complete reframe on the entire nature of reality and the purpose of life, really. So these are, these are very, very deep things. And it's one of those things that you can only experience it for yourself. That's why it's important to make time for these sorts of things, practices. If I had never been open to even learn meditation, then I wouldn't have had my whole life radically changed. So the first step is just to be open to it and then go deeper and deeper into the. Into the feeling of it, right? [00:30:52] Speaker B: One of the things I feel people are expecting grace, that they will get a vision, they will get something, and then they will believe. But I feel that you cannot have all of these strings and conditions attached to experiencing God. You have to be willing to let go of your illusions, your illusions about who you are, your illusions about God. You're hanging on to like old paradigms, old patterns of thinking and being. You have to be willing to see through them, right? An illusion is not the same as a weakness, right? Weakness. You have to struggle, you have to let it go. Illusion is you just have to see properly. Just have to see properly. And so in this case, with God being a point of light, God being the supreme being, the supreme soul, the ocean of love, the ocean of benevolence. I have to be willing to let go of my illusion that I'm a body. I have to be willing to let go of my illusion of whatever I think God should do, shouldn't do, should have done, should have done to me and not for me, all of that. I have to let it go and really come into a relationship of clarity, right? Be very clear about this relationship. And it does require a little bit of effort because we're all so addicted to our comfort that we don't want any little bit of discomfort, right? But we want grace. But we don't want discomfort. And so before the grace, there has to be the letting go of discomfort, like walking through the valley of discomfort and just being in the discomfort and making some little bit of effort so that you can actually experience the grace. [00:33:01] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to do something. It's like, I mean, when I had my first meditation experiences, I wasn't looking for grace and I didn't expect anything. Do you know, I mean, if I'd gone into it wanting, demanding visions, I definitely wouldn't have got them. You know, it's because I wasn't expecting anything. I just thought, all right, well, nothing else has worked. Let me see what's gonna happen here. And so, yeah, it's, it's not that much discomfort. I think the, the real discomfort is actually just dealing with our own stuff in silence that arises by itself, you know. So after I had all these experiences, then I started doing meditation. Almost the real, you know, like the real work began in a way. And I remember sitting there on a chair, cross legged, thinking like hearing music in my head and like, oh, this song and this TV show and this thing and it was all going all over the place and I wasn't even aware that I was thinking all that stuff beforehand actually. But if I hadn't put myself in the position to receive God's love and bliss, then I wouldn't have received it. So it's, it's like the discomfort is really just being willing to put yourself in a, in a calm, calm enough place to be able to go deep. So when I, when I go to, to meditate out in nature, because I like to do that because there's less distractions, right? So I sit there and the first part of the meditation, I might not be experiencing profound experiences at all, right? That's the discomfort. But as long as I stay with it long enough, then I. It goes deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And then it becomes very, very profound. But there is always this level of resistance. And so you have to ask, are you willing to, to put in a little bit of time? Really? That's all it comes down to. So shreem, what do they need to do practically? So anyone listening to this, if they want to experience God as infinite love and light. [00:35:19] Speaker B: They need to consider themselves to be a soul first. And that takes a lot of practice. And then really be open and willing and accept that God is a being of light and is the ocean of love, is the ocean of benevolence and is available to me right now. And so I Need to tune my frequency to that. Right. Let go of all of these old way patterns about God and what you heard and all of the wonderful legacy your religion must have given you about God. You need to let it all go and really come into this relationship with openness. [00:36:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it's important to think of God as a point of light who's a loving. It's not just because a point of light, because the sun is a point of light as far as we're concerned, in the sky. Right. And so, but that's, that's the sun. It's not just a shining light, it's a. God is a loving, blissful, benevolent being. And, and God is also, that's, that's why Shree's written this book here because there's 40 different titles like the Innocent Lord, you know, so God doesn't have a problem with anything you've done. The friend, the hidden one. Like there's all these. So it's not just a point of light. If it's just a point of light. It can be a bit sterile potentially like if that's all it is. But who is this point of light? This point of light is a very loving, giving being who wants to remove the sorrow. And so we, we surrender our negativity and our pain and we receive happiness in return. So, so this is a being who can take out the pain. So people say God's allowing all this bad stuff to happen. God's trying to help the people in the world. The souls release the negativity in themselves. So they stopped doing stupid stuff. So we stopped making problems. Right. And so God is help trying to help heal the soul. And we need to be open to receive that healing. So one of the key important things is to, is to get out your head that God is some punishing being in the sky. That's so keeping a checkbook of all the bad stuff you did and it's ready to sort of hit you with some bad thing. Do you know? I mean, because a lot of people have this in their, in their head that there's like this man up there that's going to start throwing lightning bolts at them out of the sky. So they're just like, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. So you have to have their attitude and awareness. God is a loving presence who cares about your well being and wants you to feel happy and relaxed and pull out all the stuff that's stressing you out. Get, let go of all the burdens and you know, be liberated from. From suffering and confusion. So then it creates a warm feeling. And then you want to connect with God because. Because this is a someone you can trust and who cares about you. Just like other people in your life love you and care about you. Imagine the most loving person in your life and times that by a million. And that gives you a sense of. Of who God is. So it's not. Not just a point, but a very loving being. Yay. [00:38:52] Speaker B: Are we ready for a blessing or. [00:38:54] Speaker A: Ready for your blessing? For our blessing. Look how many book Shireen's knocked out since we started this podcast. Look at this. And there's another one coming. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Now. The other one is. Okay, I picked communication. It just randomly opened to communication. This is God's blessing for you. Communication. You have the strength to express yourself freely without fearing how others might judge you. There is a refreshing feeling of being in touch with who you are, allowing your inner truth to show itself and bring you peace. There you can have this kind of communication with God. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Yay. Well, enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And many, many blessings.